Ep. 8 - Fighting Fire with Fire

Some days your skin feels reactive, inflamed, and impossible to manage and that frustration is exactly what sparked this conversation. Sam Bazile takes a real clinical scenario and breaks down a concept that can feel counterintuitive in the treatment room: sometimes calming the skin is not enough.

Chronic inflammation is one of the biggest drivers behind conditions like rosacea, acne, and barrier dysfunction. When skin stays stuck in that cycle, layering more soothing products does not always create change. Sam explains why understanding the difference between acute and chronic inflammation is key and how controlled, intentional stimulation can actually help reset the skin.

This episode walks through:
 • Why chronic inflammation keeps skin stuck and resistant to treatment
 • How controlled inflammation supports healing, collagen, and cell turnover
 • When treatments like microneedling, exfoliation, or retinoids make sense
 • The difference between a normal reaction and true skin damage
 • Why both providers and clients need to shift away from the “only soothe it” mindset

This is for estheticians, skincare professionals, and anyone dealing with persistent redness, sensitivity, or inflammatory skin conditions who feel like nothing is working. It is also a reminder that results-driven skin health often requires a more strategic approach not just a gentle one.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey y'all, welcome to the Skin Trovert. I'm your host, Sam Bazil. Y'all ever have one of those days where you just feel like nothing is going right? You don't look your best, you don't feel your best. And it's always those days where it's like every single thing seems to go wrong. Yep, having one of those days today. So I started my day off waking up, wanting to literally claw my eyeballs right from the socket. Pollen is out of control right now. My eyes are itchy, swollen red. I'm having sinus pressure, so I'm dealing with headache. My nose is just stuffed up. It's just been like that. Then I go to put my contacts in, can't get them in because of the itchy, swollen eyeballs. So then I gotta walk around all day wearing my Jeffrey Dahmer glasses because I can't find my regular glasses. And my husband hates the Jeffrey Dahmer glasses, and one of those. Then I go to this beautiful med spa with these beautiful marble floors, and then I drop my product bag all over the marble floors. It spills everywhere, it makes a loud clank. I'm disturbing everyone. I have a mess on their beautiful floors. One of those days. But the one good thing that happened today, no, I had lots of good things. I am blessed and highly favored. But one of the things that happened that was a positive was I got a call from a PA that um had previously shared uh a specific patient with me, a concern, and we talked about we made a plan, and she was calling me today to tell me it'd been over a month. The patient came in and the results were fire. Okay. So I thought I've got to share this with everybody today while it's fresh on my brain. So this is gonna be a very quick, quick topic, but I had to, I had to share it. And when I had come home, I was like, oh man, now I'm gonna have to like force the contacts into my eyeballs, you know. But then I said, no, no, Sam, you're not gonna do that. Because you know what? Itchy, inflamed, swollen eyeballs are actually on theme to what we're gonna talk about today. Because today we're gonna talk a little bit about inflammation and fighting fire with fire. So that specific PA had reached out to me about two months ago, and she was really struggling with this rosacea patient. So this rosacea patient has diagnosed rosacea, but also extremely sensitized skin, lots of inflammation, redness, she had textural issues, everything hurts, like puts on basic moisturizers and it hurts. And she's like, I just don't understand what to do next. I just feel like I need to give up because all I've been doing is just flooding her skin for almost a year with anti-inflammatory topicals, like just all of the anti-inflammatory, barrier-lovin, barrier restorative treatment products. Nothing's working. I've also talked to her about avoiding inflammatory foods. We've talked about avoiding rosacea triggers, and I just feel like nothing's working. It's like the redness and the irritation, it just persists. And I said, Well, she has chronic inflammation. And she's like, Yeah, no duh. So what am I supposed to do? I said, Well, have you tried to fight fire with fire? And she was like, What the hell is that? And I said, Well, have you tried any in-office treatments like microneedling? And I said, That would be great for the textural concerns. And she was like, Why on earth would you recommend microneedling when I'm telling you that even a basic moisturizer hurts her skin? And I said, Well, that's the concept of fighting fire with fire. And after her calling me today to tell me that they did the microneedling treatment, patient came back over a month later, and the redness and sensitivity is completely gone. She literally was almost crying on the phone. And that's what made I could I rushed home. I couldn't get home fast enough to share this topic with you guys because it's such a strange concept. Because number one, a lot of people don't agree with it. They think it's absolutely silly and reckless. And then on the other hand, I have people that just do not know what it is and do not understand it. So whether you agree with me or not, I'm gonna tell you a little bit about it and my opinions on it. And then if it's maybe something that you can relate to or understand, but you just need a little bit more information, then this is definitely the quick little topic for you. So, first, if you're gonna understand fighting fire with fire, we need to understand the difference between acute inflammation and chronic inflammation. And it's really very simple. Acute good, chronic bad. Just that simple. So acute inflammation is good. It's the way that our body heals. So whenever you have an injury or invasion from harmful substances, allergens, bacteria, your skin or your body is going to produce inflammation. That is acute inflammation. It's short term, it's your body's way of healing, and then your skin eventually heals from that stimulus. But if that inflammation is not healed, it becomes chronic. So chronic is bad because it's long term, it's not controlled, and when it's left untreated, it just gets completely out of control and causes all kinds of things, specifically with the skin, textural abnormalities, and you get fully into the disease like your rosacea, your acne, your separate dermatitis, etc. So when you have acute inflammation, I want you to think of that as like a campfire. So it's controlled. The person actually starts the fire. That little campfire is providing warmth, it's providing light, maybe it's helping to source food. So it's needed, it's controlled. And then when you're done with the campfire, you just put it out and then it's over with. It served its purpose. However, think if the person didn't put the campfire out and they were reckless and they were irresponsible, then it's going to turn into a wildfire. That's what chronic inflammation is. Chronic inflammation is a wildfire. It's that campfire that was neglected and it is literally just causing all kinds of disruption. So when skin presents as chronically inflamed, so we're seeing things like rosacea, acne, barrier dysfunction, we can potentially fight fire with fire to put out the inflammation flame. And I know that sounds crazy, but it's not a foreign concept. I mean, we do controlled injury treatments for this exact same reason in clinic. And what are those treatments that can have that controlled injury, that acute inflammation, microneedling, chemical peels, some lasers, retinoid use? When we're stimulating the skin, it's just your skin being stimulated to function better. It's the same Dr. Obaji concept that we talk about when we say no reaction, no repair. It's how the skin is going to heal. So how can controlled inflammation actually heal the skin? Well, let's talk about that campfire that is just burning, that wildfire that just got completely out of control and it's going nuts. Well, sometimes firefighters can actually fight wildfires with firing operations that kind of get ahead of the wildfire. So they get ahead of it and they burn, they control burn away fuel, dead bush, dead brush, debris. So by getting ahead of the fire, burning that down, it stops the fire from spreading. So that's kind of the concept of what we're doing. So you don't put out a wildfire by doing absolutely nothing. Yes, you can maybe put some water on it, and sometimes that helps, but a lot of times when it's a wildfire, that little bit of water ain't gonna help. So when you have a wildfire, you're not gonna do nothing. And you don't heal chronic inflammation by just calming it. You have to do more. You sometimes need to just fight the fire with fire. Now, when we fight fire with fire, we can increase cellular turnover, we can boost the skin's keratinocyte maturation cycle, we can boost collagen, we can regulate oil, we can help with pigment production. And like I said, we can do that at home and in clinic. We could do it at home with stimulating retinoids, we could do it in clinic with professional treatments, microneedling, chemical peels. And if retinoids aren't your thing, then you could do it with exfoliants. That's another way to help. Now, I think sometimes where the mixed messaging comes in, and where, in my opinion, I think the industry gets it wrong is whether you, like I said, if you don't agree with me, or maybe you just don't understand. And instead of expanding our knowledge and really trying to understand, or maybe even if you don't agree, at least making yourself, you know, privy or aware to the concept that there are different ways to get to that end result. And when we talk about fighting fire with fire, it's just a simple concept of what you guys are already doing. But instead, I think some of us are putting the message out to um, you know, if it tingles, it's bad. If it stings, it's bad. That's not normal. And, you know, the calm everything trend, everything needs to be moisturized, just moisturize, moisturize, moisturize. And then they're putting this fear of exfoliation out there when exfoliation is healthy. Exfoliation is incredibly healthy. When you were babies, your skin exfoliated very rapidly on its own, babe. And that's why it looked and felt the way that it did when you were a baby. You had great skin then, because it had its exfoliation. So inducing exfoliation is a healthy thing. Now, I'm not saying to be reckless and overdo it because I know there's those out there. There's those out there that overdo everything because they think more is better. They think more inflammation means better repair or better results. And that is not the case. We should never ever do that. More inflammation is not better. I want you to think controlled. Controlled inflammation is better. So I don't want you overexfoliating. I don't want you over-stimulating with a retinol. And what I mean by that is you can use the aggressive approach, but it needs to be controlled. So short pulse therapy is what we do. And then we level on the skin. We get back to that barrier loving stage. You know, I think sometimes when we think about healing the skin, I think the skin needs a certain or right amount of stress to adapt to get strong, but not so much that it actually breaks. I gave this example once, and I I know I'm gonna butcher it because I don't, I'm not in the army and I don't know all the right names, but what do you call the army person that like is it your captain or your what I don't even know what the right thing to say is. Is it a captain? I don't know what the person or your your your who's the person that tells you what to do? It's not your boss, it's is it a captain? We'll just call it a captain because I don't know what it else, but I want I don't know what else it is. But I want you to think of this like think of somebody like a young, weak teenage boy, okay? He's never really had any type of discipline. He's very meek, he's very quiet, but he's gonna go into the army, okay? So when he goes into his little boot camp time, his captain or his boss, whatever you want to call it, he's gonna be hard on him. And he's not being hard on him recklessly or he's not gonna overdo it. He's gonna cause just the right amount to pressure, the right amount of pressure to make him strong, to get him to where he can actually handle being out there on the battlefield. And that's what this is doing for your skin. It's not so much that we break it, we're doing it to make it strong so that way it can handle the battlefield of the environment that we're putting it in. Because, like it or not, we live in pollution, we live exposed to the elements, these environmental aggressors. So sometimes it's hard to completely avoid that. And if you are somebody who already has genetic predispositions to the acne and the rosacea, it's like, babe, you're already like doomed. So, yes, while the anti-inflammatories and the hydrators flooding the skin with those things, yes, it's important. But sometimes as providers, we have to go a little bit of a step farther. Sometimes that's needed. And if it is, it's okay. It's just do it responsibly, controlled, keep an eye on the patient. I just feel like sometimes we get so afraid when I don't know why no one dies. We're just really trying to get the skin healthy. That's all. So I feel like if you are a patient, what are some takeaways from this for a patient? So I think if you're a patient, stop chasing only soothing treatments. Find a provider that truly understands the concept of fighting fire with fire and a provider that's going to be willing to guide you and keep an eye on you. Because remember, we don't want the campfire to be left unmanned or unattended. We we always have to keep our eyes on that campfire. Understand the difference between reactions and damage. Listen to your skin. Okay, that's a big one. I tell people that all the time because yes, there are specific like instructions or a guide to using, you know, skincare that you can give someone, but ultimately it's your skin. And just because it's, you know, ABC 123, how you're supposed to use it, your your skin may go home and say, no, babe, it's Z Y X W V-U-T. And you're like, huh? Your skin is going to tell you what it loves and what it doesn't. And you need to listen to your skin. Okay. So if your skin feels like it's stressed or too much is happening, then you can make that decision to calm down and back off. That's okay. So listen to your skin. And then for providers, don't fear. Do not fear actually taking the step to light that fire. Okay. And also don't fear educating your patients either. They need to know because they don't. They're getting all these mixed messages out there. You be the provider that they chose and guide them. Educate them on what you're doing, why you're doing it, and why it's important that they continue to follow up because you need to keep an eye on that campfire. You need to keep your eyes on that patient and their skin. And then treat beyond comfort. Treat for correction. What a concept. Okay. This isn't a spa where they're coming in for a massage to feel good. Yes, you can offer that as like a thing with their esthetician. That's fine, but that's not why they're coming here. They're coming here for correction. So let's put aside the comfy, feel good, make you all warm and fuzzy, and let's get down to the nitty-gritty and get some results. And then set expectations. Like let them know what a reaction, an anticipated reaction, what that acute inflammation looks like. Set them up for success so they know. And then make them feel okay to reach out if they're not okay. Like it's okay if you're concerned, I'm right here if you need me, or my patient care coordinator is here if you need anything. Like let them know to not be scared to reach out because that's another thing that I've heard in the field recently. Like, oh no, I didn't reach out because I was afraid that she was going to be annoyed and think, like, I've already told you that this is normal. And we we have to be, no, we need to, they need to feel safe and they need to feel heard, especially when it comes to reactions and things like that. So I hope this little bit of information was helpful. Um, again, I hope all this does is inspire you to learn more, inspire you to dig a lot deeper. And a lot of these topics that I'm covering, I'm really trying to keep very general, very basic for that reason to inspire you to learn and want to know more. It's also allowing me to prepare a little bit more in-depth conversations that I can have with you guys later on in the future. Um, I always want to open the door to having guests that are industry experts. And I think that will also help where I'm kind of setting the ground with just the basics, and then I can offer industry experts to come in and kind of offer their expert opinion because, like it or not, I mean, yes, I am still a licensed aesthetician, but you know, I think people enjoy hearing from true industry experts. So let me know if there's someone specifically that you would like to hear from. I'm just a regular schmeguler. I'm not a big famous podcast person, but I still would like to reach out to them and offer them the opportunity to come and be a part of the skintrovert and share with us in our community. So if there is someone specific that you'd like to hear from, please let me know and I will see what I can do. Um, in the meantime, if there's anything else that you would like to share with me, any topics that you would like me to talk about, you can always reach out to me directly at theskintrovertsam at gmail.com. You can find me on all social media platforms as the skintrovert, and I am on all podcast platforms as well. All right, that's it. Y'all get out there and go fight some fire with fire. Y'all have a good one. Take care. Bye guys. Think of the skin trovert as your aesthetics round table, not a training manual. This podcast is for professional education and discussion. It's not medical advice. Your scope of practice matters, regulations vary, and your license always leads. 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